Truly, Quote of The Day by Orhan Pamuk, via Hurriyet:Turkish author Orhan Pamuk visited the family of murdered journalist Hrant Dink at their home in Istanbul yesterday, stopping to make a few statements to reporters on exiting the Dink home.
Pamuk, who told reporters that words could not even describe his sorrow, said "In a sense, we are all responsible for his death. However, at the very forefront of this responsibility are those who still defend article 301 of the Turkish Penal Code. Those who campaigned against him, those who portrayed this sibling of ours as an enemy of Turkey, those who painted him as a target, they are the most responsible in this. And then, in the end, we are all responsible."
*Thanks to L.P. for the link.
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17 comments:
Well Orhan Pamuk is a person who sold his own country for nobel award...He accepted "G" just to take the award..I dont read him and will never read him..To me he is not a big writer of Turkey..
But I agree on Hrant Dinks death is so sad for us...Really a shame...
A link to Pamuk's "New Yorker" article about his own trial under Article 301: http://tinyurl.com/d4cqg8
Anonymous, your refusal to read him is your own loss, because he is a great writer, even in English translation.
Well I am against such thing as accept "G" take nobel award kind western trading..In first place in principle such thing can not be accepted..Second Pamuk is never Turkeys best writer and will never be..third there are so much writer who dont sell their country so cheaply..So I dont loose anything,Only looser is Orhan Pamuk...He doesnt have a country that respect him...
///Well I am against such thing as accept "G" take nobel award kind western trading///
Well, if it was so easy to accept the "G" word and receive a nobel award on literature ...
There is no such link, but rather an imagination of conspiracy theory lovers.
How can a person - who never read Pamuk - know that he isn't worth a nobel prize?
Well anyhow I dont believe that if he didnt accept "G",he can get that award...
Anyway,nobel and "G" has become so cheap that everyone can get it and everyone claim anything "G"....
Do armenians have a writer that claims that there is no "G".if yes..I want to read his/her books instead...
Anonymous who denies "G". You seem intelligent person, I am not here to advance "G" recognition. Hrant Dink was the one who was not promoting "G" recognition, but rather saying to Turks "open your minds and learn your own history" We saw the result, there is deep rooted fear of own history, so denialism is partly natural.
For example, you said "Anyway,nobel and "G" has become so cheap that everyone can get it and everyone claim anything "G"....", which is a very flawed generalization
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denialism
In turkey,we dontknow much about Ottoman times..Therefore you are so free to propogand the "G" freely as if it is a fact..Therefore it is so cheap..
If we had known,We can also have invoiced all Turks being killed in 1st world war to you!!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
In your last comment you used 3 forms of propaganda
1. Using emotional rather rational argumentation (the word "cheap")
2. Red herring, or diverting argument ///If we had known,We can also have invoiced all Turks being killed in 1st world war to you!!///
3. Transfer // You try to discredit my comments [or any message or work on "G"] labeling them as propaganda "Therefore you are so free to propogand the "G"///
PS My claims till now were:
a. It's not so easy to simply accept "G" and receive a noble prize
b. Those who think so, are 'conspiracy theory lovers'
c. A person who never read particular writer can't judge about his/her value in literature
d. Hrant Dink was not promoting "G" recognition, but rather letting/advocating Turks to discover it themselves
e. Turks have fear of own history and so partly denialism is natural
Please, find elements of "G" propaganda in my claims, since this was your last claim
First of all dont take it personal my you means "Armenians" not you..
Second as you accuse people with being "denialist"..YOu shall have a fact for everybody..You dont have a fact but you have a belief that you got generations from your parents..Third the subject is emotional yes I dont claim I am rational..
Last lets not discuss the subject further because we can not agree...
And "G" is a dogma for your nation..If someone question that dogma you loose your meaning of existance...So it is Armenians that shall overcome some of the dogmas...You shall produce some people with different opinions....
In Turkey there is discussion with two sides..In your country there is not.There is only one side.Therefore you call your dogma fact,anyone opposing it denialists..
Back to Pamuk, some good news just in: Pamuk's great novel "Snow," which takes place in Kars, has just been published in an Armenian translation:
www.panarmenian.net/news/eng/?nid=31454
I will simply highlight mistakes, this is too emotional to talk on substance
///And "G" is a dogma for your nation..///
Dogma is a belief or an opinion while "G" - aside from feelings - is also a historiography result of scientific methods.
////If someone question that dogma you loose your meaning of existance...///
First of all there is no unknown "someone", usually and if not in the most cases the perpetrators question "G". This topic was analyzed by many scholars on "G" & "H", it is called "Last stage of Genocide". Probably you have never seen Jews' reaction to "someone" who questions "H". Questioning "G" is also a genocidal action, and "is among the surest indicators of further genocidal massacres" see here: http://www.genocidewatch.org/eightstages.htm
///So it is Armenians that shall overcome some of the dogmas...///
Your appeal should be directed to the world and not only to Armenians, especially to scholars. There are hundreds of work about facts, and you know overcoming facts means ignoring them. And I don't believe that your appeal to ignore facts will be taken seriously by scholars.
///You shall produce some people with different opinions....///
Turkish Government paid high money to few internationals to play this game, and now you ask us to simply side with it? The different opinion as you call it is denialism, denialism is a "rejection of propositions on which a scientific or scholarly consensus exists"
///In Turkey there is discussion with two sides..In your country there is not.///
Wrong. Or semi-truth. Not only in Armenia but in the majority of the countries and - most importantly - in the academia world, there is not.
///There is only one side.Therefore you call your dogma fact,anyone opposing it denialists..///
Also wrong, or labeled. First you call facts as dogma, later you labeled dogma as being taken as a fact. The correct version would be:
"There is only one side.There are facts, and anyone opposing it are denialists"
PS I hope that one day an intelligent Turk will ask himself/herself "why Turkey opposes to the world on this issue? Is there anything wrong?" Rather then assuming that the world is against them.
well dont mix two things...One is fact that everybody accepts,the other is the belief that you convince some of the people due to you do good marketting by means of money organisation intellectual effords..And dont give the ordered works of some scholars that you are sponsor of as evidence...It is not
In the world no independent scholar is volunteer to make one sided works..you can only get it by sponsorship..
Anyhow we Turks can not compete with you by giving 300.000 dollars to some lobby groups in US..whereas you make much bigger political bazarlik with the candidates in US,not only money;organisation,peoples active participation...
Dont have the illusion that what you achieved is so difficult..If Turks fill the 2 or 3 generations with anthi-armenian arguments,if Turkish intellectuals work against you in abroad-I must admit that due to yor privilidges in Ottoman your intellectual resources of people are better than us-if we make good organisations then we can compete with your propoganda..
Because as you know nomatter you make the propoganda excellent, at the end of the day the winner is Reality...And Reality is with us,sorry..
The early you get it early you can have a prosperous future..Otherwise you are slave of the dogmas and your egocentric self-propoganda...
///In the world no independent scholar is volunteer to make one sided works..you can only get it by sponsorship..///
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo
And probably this is the first case of denialism http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair
Anon,even Galile will not buy your propoganda..YOur case is weak sorry...
The Turks apparently see themselves as victims of "imperialist powers." Imperialists being any state or person who recognizes the reality of the "G" or might be concerned about the treatment of minorities in Turkey. Turks were also apparently manipulated by imperialists to join World War I on the side of the Central Powers. They are even manipulated by "emperyalists" and their Ermeni lobisi today.
One has to wonder, though -- if Armenians put lobbying efforts aside, would the mere assertion that the Armenian Genocide took place be considered lobbying by Turks? Because as long as the state-sponsored denial by Turkey (and, by extension Azerbaijan) continues, so too will the lobbying efforts in the diaspora.
But it's not like Orhan Pamuk was the first to talk about these issues in Turkey. I remember reading about Yaşar Kemal visiting the Dink family after the assassination.
In todays armenia,Russia donated 0,8 billion dollar equivalent weapon..The Azerbaijan territories are under armenian invasion..Everyone knows that Armenia can not capture the land without Russian existance..It is the Russian soldiers that invade azerbaijan in name of armenians..
So it is hard for an armenian to play the victim...
The biggest mistake armenians make is they rely on big powers very much, they ignore their neighbours..In which of his neighbours Armenia has good relations?May be Iran.
And one question to diaspora,is todays Armenia a country that you dream to move after some time?If yes no problem if no why not?
PS:I do think that recent developments of road map or others is also a project of big powers(US specifically)..Otherwise we were happy without armenians...
PS2:yesterday Murat Bardakcı said if I accepted "G",I will have pullitzer award...
I must remind you that Yasar kemal has been awarded by légion d'honneur from France...
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