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Friday, 28 March 2008

Military parade in Yerevan confirmed - no, it's not a bad joke!

The news that Armenian authorities decided to stage a ‘military parade’ in Yerevan on 9 April may have seemed unbelievable - no one in his rational mind would have even thought about such possibility after what happened in Yerevan.

But this was confirmed yesterday by Seyran Shahsuvaryan, spokesman for the Ministry of Defence. He also states that no tanks will be seen during the parade, only soldiers, as if it makes the whole idea looking more acceptable.

And to confirm this news further, InfoArmenia publishes today a copy of decree on ‘military parade’ by Defence Minister (below). Interestingly, this decree was signed on the last day of ‘state of emergency’ - 20 March 2008.

Everything is wrong with this so called ‘military parade’. The idea is wrong, the place is wrong, the day is wrong. I am not discussing here the legitimacy of Serj Sargsyan presidency, let’s put that issue on side for a moment. But parade? Military parade? In Liberty sq? (which is completely inappropriate place for holding military parades under any circumstances). But come on, Armenian authorities. Do you really have much to celebrate after what you did on 1 March? I’d love to know who is the ‘beautiful mind’ behind that idea. Actually, that does not even matter now. How cynical one may be to stage a parade on the 40th day of government crackdown on opposition movement which left 8 people dead (by Armenian tradition on the 40th day the souls of the deceased are remembered). OK, the day of ‘inauguration’ coincides with that tragic date, and the authorities have to go with it ‘according to the law’. But can’t they show just a bit of modesty and tact? Can’t they see the whole inappropriateness of the ‘military parade’ thing and the ridiculousness which they put themselves in? Unbelievable!




50 comments:

Anonymous said...

modesty? tact? are we talking about the same people?

nazarian said...

Thanks for the document. That was quite entertaining.

Is the minister's signature Russian?

Nejdeh said...

I guess that it is going to be the first Military Parade inside the territory of an opera house in the world! So, maybe the Armenian Government could invite experts from the Guinness Book of Records too...

Anonymous said...

ADVISE to serzh and organizers:

In Military parade to demonstrate prototype of tanks and rockets. Instead of solders to be used tin-toy ones :-)

sepian65 said...

Rather than toning it down a little since it’s also a day of mourning, they are pumping it up even louder.
Is this their way of building consensus with the opposition and several thousand people who’ve been beaten up by police on the very same Liberty square?

That makes them either extremely stupid or exceptionally arrogant and wicked.

Anonymous said...

its more simple than that.its asimple calculation...they are just afraid that day day people will overthrow them and so they need to have army ready in yerevan to be able to attack people before they will be down!!!!!

Anonymous said...

nazarian, it looks like it is Russian, but most people of the pre-80s generations had Russian signatures, no? It was sort of a convention.

as for this latest farce...It would be laughable if it wasn't so sad. Serzh knows he can't be sworn in without soldiers and artillery, so of course they have to come up with some dubious parade to justify the strong military presence that is going to be evident that day in Yerevan. The question then becomes: how ANERES do you have to be to 1)still go ahead with the inauguration and 2) insist that over 70% of the population is behind you, while you obviously realize that you are so hated by the people that unless you're protected by over 5000 armed bodyguards, you can't be sworn in. Boy, we are in trouble.

Anonymous said...

I wonder what Onnik's gonna say to this...

Haik said...

It appears Serj is going to give his "oath" inside Opera and therefore they are calling the troops to protect him. What a place to choose but I am not surprised as they held if I am not mistaken either kickboxing or boxing events inside Opera very recently. Maybe the next step will be converting it into a casino. Actually they might as well do it before 9th so Serj can feel at home.

Interestingly as no marches and rallies are allowed by the new law ratified recently by "MP"s how are they going to deal with the April 24th march to Tsitsernakabert? Will they start shooting at people there as well?
It would also be interesting that what Kocharian aka Cobra is going to do after April 9th? Will the Cobra desert Serj?

nazarian said...

Haik, laws like that are for selective enforcement.

Heck, all the laws are for selective enforcement in Armenia nowadays.

Anonymous said...

haik, it can be argued that cobra deserted serzh on March 1st.

Also, "marches,etc." law stipulates that the government has the right to ban public gatherings if it has credible information (i.e. info from the police or the National Security Service, two HIGHLY reliable sources) that the gathering will cause mass disturbances, disruption or death. Now, there is no question that the opposition is organizing around April 24th, so the police and the NSS (aka the KGB) will surely be "hearing rumors" about "mass deliveries of weapons" and a "planned coup d'etat". They haven't stopped at anything else, it seems even that they are ready to concede Gharabagh to stay in power, so it'll be interesting to see how they deal with this. Honestly, at this point, can you really put it beyond them to go ahead and ban it out of "concern for public safety"?

Onnik Krikorian said...

Artmika, will you please tell anonymous trolls to stop attacking people or at least get them to come out from behind their cowardly anonymity? In the end it only discredits your blog.

As for the military parade, I don't even think it's a matter of showing disregard for the 1 March event. It's quite simply a blatant attempt to have the army in Yerevan to deal with any public disorder or gatherings in Liberty Square.

The anonymous coward asks what I'm going to say. Obviously the guy is either a retard or needs glasses, because I've already said it on the post you link to. If the rumor was true, I am against the parade and I already said there was only one reason for staging such an event.

Anyway, Artmika, you should know better than allow anonymous attacks on people. By all means, allow people to bring the level of your blog down by attacking people they don't agree with such as me, but please, let us all know who they are and who they represent.

Obviously, it's Levon's people, but let's all know who and what we're dealing with. Or do they see me as some kind of threat and are so chicken-shit that they have to engage in such tactics even when they're wrong?

reflective said...

Onnik why are you so surprised? It is hard to argue with logic against cult-worshipers.

Onnik Krikorian said...

It has to be said, and as I pointed out to a local analyst and blogger who I ran into yesterday, with the exception of some such as Bekaisa, Artmika, Viktoria Abrahamian, and surprisingly enough, Nikol Pashinian (who was always pleasant and civil when I ran into him before he went on the run -- including on 1 March), many of Levon's supporters do indeed seem to be nothing short of fanatic and do fit the psychological profile of the kind of people who can be found in religious cults.

It's also an attitude which sets their movement far apart from pro-democracy movements which use reasoned and civil argument and debate when dealing even with their opponents. It's also why Europe has so far been reluctant to side with the opposition given the less than democratic and moderate approach they have taken so far.

It's also why, Artmika, you can at least set an example rather than allow your blog to become just another extremist propaganda one on a level well and truly in the gutter. It's also kind of ironic given that their behavior resembles exactly the same as those Serge-fanatics that used to attack me on my blog in the past.

It's why ultimately many of us have to question whether there's any difference between Serge and Levon. Both use intimidation and abuse to force people into their camps -- or sensationalized claims -- rather than the stuff genuine liberal political movements are actually made of.

Haik said...

Check out the cobra and devil
http://www.payqar.org/am/33/

reflective said...

Onnik: attempt at reason/rationality.

Haik: cobra + devil "i know how to use photoshop" personal defamation and cynical ad hominem.

Still waiting for LTP-ists to meet you halfway and be pleasant/civil?

Sadly, your answer couldn't have arrived faster.

Onnik Krikorian said...

Anonymous said...

I wonder what Onnik's gonna say to these ...


I suppose that a) nobody can use Photoshop particularly well, and b) in lieu of reasoned arguments, discussion and debate, Levon's team have to sit in front of a computer screen and play with such things for the 10 minutes it probably took.

Reflective, well, I agree, retards such as anonymous just show to anyone reading that there is a) no ability for many among Levon's team to discuss because they can only attack in infantile ways, and b) there is no substance to their movement other than being able to put together montages in much the same way that Serge's people did for Levon.

And this is called democracy or even a (radical) opposition? Pity the nation that has both sides fighting over the next accumulation and redistribution of wealth with the people used by both sides as pawns in a very unsophisticated struggle for power.

artmika said...

Onnik, where on earth did you see “personal attack” towards you in this comments section? Asking your opinion by ‘Anonymous’, even if in sarcastic tone, does not constitute “personal attack”. When attempt to it is apparent, you know very well that I intervene. But I cannot do anything when there is none. Besides, right to remain ‘Anonymous’ is essential in blogging, you know it very well, and have to be respected. I asked people to attempt using some sort of nickname so it will be easy to refer to them, but if they choose to use none, I respect their right too. My intervention in case of hateful comments or personal attacks could be warning or deleting that particular comment (as soon as I notice, which may take time). But again I cannot see anything remotely “personal attack” to what you are referring to.

I do not understand your differential sensitivities when it comes to commenting. You happily engaged in discussions with people in other blogs even if they use much more apparent “personal attacks”, but any critisim or even question here in my blog you consider very differently. In fact, I consider your first comment here as disrespectful to my blog and its readers.

Onnik, I value your opinion very much, as well as opinion of others expressed in this blog in a civilised manner. My blog is everything but “extremist propaganda”. If you guys cannot see it, then I can’t do much and I do not want to persuade anyone, you just have to read my posts and comments. However, just because people disagree, it does not mean they are attacking someone personally. In fact, on this particular example it perhaps mean that even those who are critical about your positions, nevertheless, value your opinion and want to hear it.

Onnik and ‘reflective’, comparing people who make comments here to “religious cult” members definitely does not contribute to free and civilised debates. I also do not agree with “cobra/devil” talk (re Haik). There is a wide range of people who comment here, and it is not right to generalise, based on any particular examples.

I would also ask everyone to make comments related to the topic of discussion.

Thank you!

Onnik Krikorian said...

Artmika, you know full well that comments such as "What will Onnik say to this" was intended as an attack and an attempt to discredit my opinion. The difference here is that the commenter also did so anonymously. When people attack me and identify themselves I discuss with them. Doing this in such an infantile and simplistic way is very different.

I would also like to stress that I do consider people to have the psychology of people in religious cults, but you'll also note I was referring to them and not others with opinions different than mine but who are able to engage in reasoned discussion and debate.

I also at no time accused you of running a "extremist propaganda" blog. In fact, I link to your site constantly from my own and from Global Voices because I value it. Indeed, I ran into a local analyst and blogger yesterday and he has been receiving intimidating emails and comments from Levon's people as I have.

We spoke, and we discussed the level of discussion on some of the opposition blogs. Ultimately we concluded that some of them are just cult-like and totally unreliable because of their very nature. We did, however, discuss yours and agree that we value it immensely.

While we may not agree with each other on everything, I do at least understand and respect your sense of reason and logic and consider all that you do is because you believe in democracy and human rights. This makes you different from those such as anonymous who risk turning your blog into something less than it is.

That's all I'm saying and if you read my comments again you will see that this is my concern if you allow such things to continue and escalate as they usually do. Moreover, you will also see that my comments about cult-members were referring to people like that and not those -- regardless of political opinion -- who can engage in discussion and debate.

You know me, you know my position on many things relating to freedom of speech, and you will see that's all I said and warned about. When you allow trolls to disrupt that process -- which is ultimately the end result and intention of their comments -- you destroy everything that needs to happen now.

I say again, my comments were not referring to anyone but anonymous who decided to make it personal by mentioning my name and trying to discredit me on your blog. Like I have said on Nazarian's blog, even if you're going to attack me in lieu of constructive comments or criticism, at least have the decency to do it from a name even a made up one.

Of course, I can guess who it is, which makes the situation even more serious. This person is effectively a cyber stalker, and instead of warning you I could just as easily have contacted Blogger and got them to suspend your blog. Freedom of speech is important. Discussion is even more so.

However, if you allow such people to start resorting to personal remarks in an attempt to disrupt and discredit individuals, your blog will indeed not be the valuable forum and source of information that it is. Indeed, it is also common blogging etiguette not to allow attacks on those commenting.

Read my this comment and my previous ones, and actually, you'll see that I didn't do what you accused me of. Like I said, the last time I saw Nikol Pashinian we engaged pleasantries, shook hands, and were friendly with each other.

And when we next meet we will do so again. To end, as I said, I did not accuse your blog of being extreme propaganda. I simply warned you that just as those people seek to destroy my right to be heard, they will indirectly affect yours.

reflective said...

Is my comment that the majority of pro-LTP minions act like a cult a personal insult? My guess is that most should/would look at is as a compliment.

There are lots of cults out there. Now we have one more in Armenia.

Plus, if it is about personal insults...please re-read 90% of the invective written about Serj or Robert or any of the authorities or servicemen or others who have had MUCH MUCH worse written about them.

I have never seen criticism of comparing these people to Stalin, Abdul Hamid, Adana 1909, or any other patently ABSURD comparisons.

People making such proclamations with cult-like fervor should be ashamed.

And you seem like a bright enough guy to understand my point: where is the tempered reason and balance? How can you possibly take offense at a comment comparing this fervor to a cult?

More surprised than even reflective...

Ani said...

Wow! Onnik, first of all, in a police state, people need to be anonymous--not everyone has friends at an embassy, etc. to protect them, so learn to live with it.

Second, the reason people are "picking on you" is that you disparaged Nazarian for posting about the military parade both in his blog and in yours, and unlike other posts, you've done nothing to correct the impression that he made it up, so please do so.

Also, you do have a tendency to "go on" ;)

Nejdeh said...

I am really sorry that in 21st century still WE as a nation (both in Armenia and in Diaspora) have not learnt the very primitive requirement of a civilised debate; to respect diversity and each others' opinions... Still each of us is trying to defend his/her opinion with showing venomous contempt for others' ideas, views and perspective... Let's shift to a civilised debate and understand the soul of Blog Age!

mayranoush said...

Nejdeh - very well said! I agree, lets keep the discussions civilized. And Onnik, one would think that a photo journalist of your experience would have a thicker skin and not get so upset with a sarcastic question. Please don't get so upset about anonymous comments and waste your time on that. Your opinions are interesting and although I don't agree with everything you write, I do enjoy reading your posts.

And I disagree with you and Reflective that everyone who disagrees with you is either pro-LTP or a member of some cult. Very primitive argument! The actions of the authorities over the past 2 months have disgusted many Armenians in Armenia and the diaspora. Not all of us are cult members. To make such a claim is to blindly follow the regime's party line.

So, if you want a productive dialog. If you want respect, then try to respect others and avoid attacking those who disagree with you as being cult worshippers.

PROUDLY anonymous said...

as one of the many anonymous here...Seriously? IF I write "LEVONLOVEROMGZZZ@@@@ !!@111" as my nickname, or if I divulge my real name and last name, (both VERY common in Armenia), what difference does it make? Oh, it doesn't. Yeah.

And you talk about LTP people (some really nice generalizations by the way, always a sign of civilized debate) being unreasonable, while at the same time taking someone asking you for an opinion, however sarcastic it was, as a "personal attack". But of course you calling the said anonymous a "retard" doesn't qualify as one. Double standards much? Rob and Serzh would be proud.

You put into doubt the report that Serzh/Robik were going to have a military parade; people would like to own up to it, that's all. You were pretty quick to discredit it, no?

As for comparing the LTP movement to a cult. That's a new one, Aghvan must be really angry he didn't come up with that one first. You know what, I'm going to make another historical comparison that's probably going to piss you off.

You know what all this talk about "hogekhangarmunk","neuro-linguistic conditioning", "hypnosis", "cults", and "psychological diversions" reminds me of? In the Soviet Union, people who dissented against the state were put in mental institutions because only mentally ill people would think to do that.

It is the same arrogance that Robik, Serzh, and their minions are displaying now. You THOUGHT you could go against the state, voice your disgust, and actually have the right to elect officials that represent you? Why, you are either in a cult and don't fully process your actions, or you must be crazy!

reflective said...

Doesn't piss me off at all.

Sift through the 100s of comments by LTP lap-dogs and find one criticism of LTP's racism (mongol-tatars), Pashinyan's call to arms against the state (arm yourselves), or similar stances to not negotiate, divide society, campaign of hate, lies, etc.

Find one, just one.

Then tell me it doesn't remind you of a cult.

nazarian said...

Well said, Mayranoush. It's funny how a few of the people demand respect and tolerance for their views and yet they immediately start putting labels on people who disagree with them.

It's like the current policy of the Armenian government. They call for tolerance and peace and at the same time attack people, beat them up and in some cases even kill them.

proudly anonymous said...

Reflective,
I don't know if this is an exercise in futility, but I'll try anyway.

Levon didn't call anyone "Mongol-Tatars". He said that the system Robik and Serzh have forged is similar to one seen in Mongol-Tatar societies in that it's built like a pyramid, and posts, property and land is given to relatives of those in charge. There are other similarities that he lists, you can check his speech on it if you're interested, but I'm assuming you're not because it's more fun to not be factually informed and dutifully spew off the haylurakan party line like a parrot.

Pashinyan I vehemently disagree on many things, but in the situation you were referring to, he explicitly says,"Arm with sticks and stones, if attacked, we have to defend ourselves." This has nothing to do with actions against the state, it's good old-fashioned self-defense. Of course, you conveniently ignore the other 1000 times he's urged for calm and peace, and insisted on change through nonviolent means.

Working with the premise that LTP people are the fanatics and Rob/Serzh supporters are the balanced ones, I am still struggling to find criticism from their end for any of the 1000s of outrages committed by Rob and Serzh on their own people.

Anonymous said...

Onnik,
that's me the anonymous that you called "a retard", for simply wondering what your opinion was.

Anyway, I absolutely satisfied
with your answer, that's exactly ewhat I expected: when a smart person knows he's not right in an argument, but it's too late to abandon teh position, he just gets angry and attacks people.

The reason I am anonymous is not because I am afraid of you it is because I work in a government institution and I don't want to tell my name here, because I after Serzh Sarkissian joined the blogosphere it is being closely monitored by the KGB.
And I agree with you, yes I am a coward,
because I should have quit my job and join the protesters, like some of my colleagues did.
So far I haven't had the strength to do this, besides I have always hated Levon, so I didn't want to defend his cause, but if it goes on like this, probably I will.

The coward/retard anonymous person

reflective said...

I am not a fanatical SS/Rk supporter. I will not go through a painstaking attempt like Onnik has done.

As far as your selective interpretation of LTP and Nicolik, I don't have transcripts of what they have said over the past month or 2, but I seriously doubt the authenticity of your filtered recollection. I urge all to assess the real record.

Just because one disagrees with LTP and his divisive call-to-arms doesn't make him a supporter of SS/RK.

I don't need to defend any authorities' action. That is not my intention or point.

The point is that the cult-members who clamor in the blogosphere can never find fault with their King. Never criticize, never question, just hurl stones (literally or figuratively) at the authorities, spew hate, divide society, and denigrate.

I argue that nothing constructive will come from such blind hate. What does that have anything to do with SS or RK????

reflective said...

2 more points:

1) LTP was the architect of the pyramid structure in Armenia, not RK, regardless if his or your selective memory wishes to acknowledge it.

2) There is nothing genuine in the claim re: Pashinyan that "1000 times he's urged for calm and peace, and insisted on change through nonviolent means."

He called for an attack on state structures, exhorted state servicemen to abandon their responsibilities and join an imminent clash against the authorities, dismissed the state process of elections as irrelevant, and many other actions.

This is not evidence of peaceful or democratic change. This is simply the litany of a failed coup.

If there was anyone who succeeded in achieving their goal on March 1, it was Pashinyan himself, who achieved his aim:

A weakened Armenia.

proudly anonymous said...

I don't know if you read Armenian, if not I can provide you with a working translation.
"Պատճառներից հիմնականը Ռո­բերտ Քոչարյանի եւ Սերժ Սարգսյանի ստեղծած թաթար-մոնղոլական տիպի պետական համակարգն է, որի գոյու­թյան իմաստը իշխա­նական բուրգի եւ նրա սպասավորների գերհարստացման ապահովումն է՝ ի հաշիվ օտար զանգ­ված դիտվող ժողովրդի բարեկեցության եւ արժանապատիվ կյանքի:"
-from a speech

1999 թ. հոկտեմբերի 27-ի ահաբեկչության արդյունքում ձեւավորված ավազակախումբը, աստիճանաբար վերացնելով իր գոյությանն սպառնացող բոլոր հակակշիռները, իր ձեռքում է կենտրոնացրել ոչ միայն գործադիր, այլեւ օրենսդիր եւ դատական իշխանությունները՝ Հայաստանը վերածելով թաթար-մոնղոլական տիպի խանության, որը կառավարվում է ոչ թե Սահմանադրությամբ եւ օրենքներով, այլ բացարձակ միապետի անառարկելի կամքով եւ քրեական աշխարհի կանոններով:
-from his pre-election program.

Nikol has exclusively campaigned against any type of violence. His speeches aren't as well documented as Levon's, so I couldn't find any transcripts, but if you've seen any of the youtube videos, you'd see that he continually, almost to the point of being annoying, tells people to stay calm. Watch the a1+ diaries , where every speaker(including Nikol) who speaks to the crowd takes it upon himself to tell the crowd to stay peaceful.THIS IS A FACT. You cannot change FACTS just by SAYING things and wishing they were otherwise.

Show me where Nikol "called for an attack on state structures". Show a video, an article, a quote, anything to back this up. In the a1plus diary, that oft-misrepresented quote you're referring to, where he urges soldiers not to serve, he says, essentially, not to blindly serve the authorities and reminds them that among the people they are about to attack are "our mothers, women and our children". Again, this is documented on video, while none of the stuff you're claiming he said is.

proudly anonymous said...

Also, I don't know where these mysterious droves of people who fanatically defend LTP and Pashinyan are. I've never met or seen them.

I don't consider either of these individuals infallible; in fact I could rattle off the problems I had for both. But I can say with confidence that I grew up in a free country because of LTP, and in a great one despite all its shortcomings. Was it a perfect democracy? No, far from it, but LTP was not responsible for the pyramid structure you see today. There were checks and balances, the court wasn't this corrupt, the parliament didn't dutifully carry out his orders, the media was free, at least the publicly funded television stations weren't embarrassing mouthpieces for the government...

There were economic hardships, but we managed all right given that we had just experienced one of the biggest earthquakes ever, we had an enormous refugee problem, we had just separated from a centrally planned economy, and we had a resource draining war (who that ingrate Robert now claims Armenia had marginal part in winning) going on. Did LTP botch the management of the energy crisis? Sure. Did he screw up royally on a number of other issues? Of course...But nothing was stopping Serzhik/Robik from building a country that was better. They had 10 years while Levon had 7.5.

I've lived under both LTP and Robik, and I would readily go back to the LTP years way before I'd even think about living in Robik's nightmare of a "country".

reflective said...

First of all, I do not trust A1+. They are so full of authority-hatred, yellow journalistic jingoism, and plain low quality journalism, that I am sorry, it is not a reputable source for me.

Your quotes are enough for me to qualify Nikolik as a revanchist power-hungry demagogue. Looking back on his history, he supported the discredited anti-Armenian Bleyan, consistently and hypocritically attacks the state media (though he is simply a bad caricature mirror-image of the worst of the state media) and has revved up his minions to hate hate hate.

I have not heard him stand for anything except empty rhetoric which he does not believe through his actions.

His youtube collection is enough for me to be convinced that he got what he wanted: driving the population to a confrontation with the authorities, in disregard for the laws of Armenia.

He called on disregarding the elections (even before Feb 19!) stating that LTP had won. He called on people to dig in and barricade themselves after David Shahnazaryan had seemingly organized a way out of the impasse on March 1 (armed confrontation suited Nikolik better). And so on.

He is discredited demagogue.

reflective said...

Proudly anonymous is proudly amnesiac.

Checks and balances? Courts not corrupt? Shall we continue?

Oligarch structure (Grzo, Vano, Telman, and so on...)

Molopolistic/traitorous sellout (Armentel, energy to Turks while Armenian maternity wards quasi-operated in darkness)

TV was not a mouthpiece of the government?

Your post is embarrassing and delusional.

That the current authorities have perpetuated some of these ills does not erase history, sorry.

mayranoush said...

Reflective, You make Al Gore proud with your recycling and reusing of your same arguments. Don't you tire of making the same point over and over and over again? And doing so without recognizing or should I say REFLECTING (!!!!) on what others have said.

Calling others cult members? I only see one cult member here and that my friend is YOU. You are worshipping your own opinion to such a degree that you are unable to engage with what anyone else has to say. And when your pathetic, unfounded arguments are challenged what do you do? You either ignore them - I've yet to read your response (apologies) for 1 March, 27 October, Sashik and Setrak...

Or you say, 'Well, Levon is a racist, Nikol is a racist...' Even when you are shown proof that that is not the case you go on and press your point. That is called demagoguery.

And please do not resort to your pathetic strategy of calling those who disagree with you cult members (or any similar term) because we've heard it all before and I've yet to meet cult members who possess the power of logical reasoning and rational discourse. These are capabilities, which you, I am sad to say, do not possess. Otherwise you would at least attempt to engage with your interlocutors instead of pertually parroting and recycling the same dross.

reflective said...

amnesiac and mayranoush -

just a couple of (sadly) many...check out

http://uzogh.livejournal.com/?skip=20

http://www.youtube.com/login?next_url=/watch%3Fauth_token%3Dsessionless%253A1206824400%253Aembedcontent%253A7802638%25252%26moduleid%3D61%26eurl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Flj-toys.com%252F%253Fjournalid%253D7802638%26v%3DW_QWHA-sxW8

reflective said...

http://www.youtube.com/login?next_url=/watch%
3Fauth_token%3Dsessionless%253A1206824400%253
Aembedcontent%253A7802638%25252%26moduleid%3D
61%26eurl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Flj-toys.com%25
2F%253Fjournalid%253D7802638%26v%3DW_QWHA-sxW8

got cut off earlier...

the above is all one link.

reflective said...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj3Q0GJ7wdI&
eurl=http://lj-toys.com/?journalid=7802638&
moduleid=55&auth_token=sessionless:12068244
00:embedcontent:7802638%2

proudly anonymous said...

Reflective, clearly you have not been anywhere near Armenia for the last at least 30 years. The news was unbiased in Levon's time; you could ROUTINELY turn on TV and the same h1 and also a1+ and ar and others regularly skewered authorities, the parliament, Levon, the bizarre things he had made a habit of saying toward the end of his presidency...FACT. FACT. FACT. STOP arguing against FACTS.

You must not be a fan of facts because you still haven't brought up a single one to prove your rants, and continue saying the same things even when presented with clear evidence to the contrary. We can dispute a1+'s objectivity, that's fine, but how can you argue against unedited, raw footage which is what most of the diaries are?

just as an fyi: 100% of armentel is Russian owned; 80% of vivacell is Russian owned; the third cell company that is going to come into the market in August is going to be 100% Russian owned. 65% of the Armenia-Iran pipeline is Russian owned. Do I need to continue? Almost all of our economy, including strategically CRUCIAL sectors such as telecommunications and energy are overwhelmingly foreign-owned. How else does "selling out" Armenia look like?

I was not aware of any energy deals that were made with Turkey; I would love to see some facts, articles, evidence to back this up. Wait, who am I kidding?

Vano was an oligarch? Are you kidding me? Sure, I distinctly remember the uproar over the house he was building but it wouldn't even be a doghouse for Dodi, Lfik, Alraghac, and any of the other clowns of today.

I really do believe this is a battle of "hearts and minds"; the more we can explain what is going on, the better. This is why I've wasted so much of my time with you. However, in your case, I think we have a lost case...I'm done. If ignorance is bliss, you must be the happiest person alive.

reflective said...

I am very much aware of what is happening in Armenia. You can continue to claim and defend the architects of Armenian democracy, pluralistic society, competitive economy, non-corruption, openness toward opposition parties, and thriving demographic bliss all were evidently ruined only in the last 10 years.

That is one interpretation (albeit with a strong hallucinogenic aspect) of the past. I'll let the readers decide.

Thx for your time!

Azad said...

Sorry for going back to the main topic.
I don't remember where and how the inauguration ceremonies took place previously.
Could someone please remind me?

retardedanonymous said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
artmika said...

Thank you, Azad, for returning back to the main topic!

As far as I remember, inauguration ceremonies in Armenia were held in parliament (previously parliament building was at Republic sq, then - Baghramyan Av.). But I can't find links. I do not mind inauguration ceremony to be held in Opera building. But definitely without being accompanied by "military parade" thingy inside the territory of Opera house (! - I like Nejdeh comment re Guinness Book), especially under the current circumstances.

Azad said...

Thank you, Artmika.
Reflection A
The military parade on the day of inauguration may be signaling further militarisation of the State:
1.
The new political power is born more from bullets than ballots. So it is kind of indebted to the army and to the other security forces.
2.
During the pre-election period, the army was one of the few topics on which all the candidates took a clear position. LTP started the row when he proposed replacing the current army with a small professional force of 10K. Serge and Dashnaks were for keeping a strong draft army. Other candidates, including Artur who is now in the governing coalition, took in-between positions (maybe later, 15K, etc). From now on, the army will naturally try to burry all these doubts and debates forever. To keep its privileged position and to ensure its future development, the army will most probably feel necessary to increase its influence over the political apparatus and to exercise more control over political processes.
3.
Serge has served as Defense Minister for a good part of his political career. He will naturally be positively disposed to any advances/demands coming from the military hierarchy.
4.
LTP’s ambiguous relations with Yerkrapah has provided yet another justification for a socially dominant and strong army as a stabilizing factor.
5.
Azerbaijan’s seems tempted to abandon the negotiation process. The threat of war will surely justify a stronger army and favor the militarisation of the State.

Azad said...

Reflection B
Based on different rumors, Serge’s inauguration speech will contain important political “overtures”; general amnesty, etc. If true, the choice of the Opera - a place of culture and “gentleness” - makes sense.
Of course, he knows that such a political gesture will be effective only if it is not interpreted as a sign of weakness/desperation. It is therefore necessary that he emphasises his position of strength simultaneous to any “acts of kindness”. So I think the military parade serves that. (It is undoubtedly the most conventional and unimaginative demonstration of force).
In other words, the Opera + the parade may be an indication of the upcoming carrot and stick policy.

Ani said...

And returning to the topic, what am I missing that this can't be argued as illegal under the new law banning rallies? Does the law say specifically "anti-government" or does it just say rallies? With special emphasis on this part:

"Another, more significant, amendment allows the authorities to “temporarily” ban rallies for an unspecified period of time after street gatherings resulting in casualties. The ban shall remain in force until the end of the official investigation into a particular case of deadly street violence. "

Bringing it to court and having a ruling builds up more evidence for the EU to address, no?

proudly anonymous said...

Are there even special events for it? Isn't the swearing ceremony usually just done at the NA assembly during a "special session"? That's what I remember it being...

proudly anonymous said...

Ah, it's usually at the government's main building in the Republic Square, with the NA present, but I guess this time around they can't leave Freedom Square unattended.

artmika said...

*via Armenia Today (in Russian):

В Армении в день инаугурации нового президента намечены траурные меропрития

Общественная организация «Национальное пробуждение» выступила с заявлением относительно дня инаугурации – 9 апреля нового президента Армении Сержа Саркисяна, напоминая, что именно в этот день сороковины по погибшим в результате трагических событий в Ереване 1 марта.

«Насколько случайно это совпадение, настолько и символично - празднование на пролитой крови невинных. Мы отрицаем это циничное и издевательское неуважение в отношении всего народа», - отмечается в заявлении. Авторы отмечают, что 9 апреля весь армянский народ будет отмечать сороковины тех, кто боролся за свободу народа. Этот день, будет днем траура, и все траурные мероприятия будут проведены в соответствии с требованиями традиций - в черных одеяниях и символикой. В частности, в 14:00 по местному времени все желающие возложат цветы к памятнику Александра Мясникяна в Ереване, где близ посольства Франции в Ереване произошли трагические события. Траурные мероприятия пройдут также в других областях Армении.

Отметим, что ранее с призывом не святотатствовать и отменить церемонию инаугурации президента выступили представители Форума Интеллигенции Армении.

artmika said...

As if military parade was not enough...